Hamilton's Racecraft

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#16

Post by erwin greven »

Bottom post of the previous page:

My criticism towards Max is, that he has a double standard towards not leaving room for others, while he expects to get room of the same ones.
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#17

Post by XcraigX »

DoubleFart wrote: 2 years ago
XcraigX wrote: 2 years agoIt has nothing to do with Hamilton reacting too late between T1 and T2.
XcraigX wrote: 2 years agoIf anything he should have left less room at T1
You just argued against my point, then backed my point up. You'll get splinters in your ass if you keep sitting on the fence.
I'm not on the fence. I'm talking about corner entry and you appear to be talking about his trajectory between T1 and T2 (last I checked, they are different parts of the track). If you are talking about how Lewis entered into T1, then state that next time so we can at least be talking the same language.

Even then my point is not his reaction time ("reacting too late"), it's leaving room for the other car (playing too nice). Lewis could have put him on the grass prior to T1, but didn't. It's not because he was too slow to do it.
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#18

Post by DoubleFart »

Ok, not too slow then, he wasn't aware enough of the risk.

Corner entry and trajectory from T1 and T2 are the same thing. If he misses the apex he pushes Verstappen wide - it's two pieces of the same puzzle.
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#19

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

I dont know if Lewis missed the T1 apex or not, but he did open the wheel on exit of T1 closing the door on Max who already had his leg in the doorway, rather than Lewis stay wide, which is, according to the stewards Lewis' prerogative. That forced Max onto the stupid sausage kerb that in turn bounced Max into Lewis. That Max expected Lewis not to close the door after what Max did to Lewis on Lap1 is either arrogance or stupidity. A case of get back what you give. If you are going to give it out, expect to cop it back yourself.

I still after all the discussion here am unchanged in my belief it was an avoidable racing incident between two boneheads.

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#20

Post by MonteCristo »

erwin greven wrote: 2 years ago My criticism towards Max is, that he has a double standard towards not leaving room for others, while he expects to get room of the same ones.
You know I'm not a Max fan, but to be fair that's practically every driver on the grid.
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#21

Post by John »

I agree. Running up front and being that much faster than everyone else is basically running dead last in a Haas but you get points for your troubles. That said, Max isn't the sharpest tool in the shed either as he's more of a gung ho type of racer.
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#22

Post by Andy »

You cannot lose what you've never had.
Hamilton is a waved by world champion from championship 1. End of.

He's never been top of any game but his advantage has been, dare I say, being the first black doing so. Nothing's better to advertise for, really. And Formula One did it to quite a high degree.
And he had the luck of being lifted into the right team after having been supported from the factory behind since day 1.
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#23

Post by Ruslan »

Andy wrote: 2 years ago He's never been top of any game but his advantage has been, dare I say, being the first black doing so.
Really?

1. So in Hamilton's 2007 rookie year when he tied his teammate two-time world champion Fernando Alonso in 2007, it was because he was black? At that time, many people considered Alonso the best driver in F1, maybe even better than Michael Schumacher.
2. So when he beat world champion Jenson Button more often than not during the three seasons they were teammates, it was because he was black?
3. So when he beat future world champion Nico Rosberg more often than not during the four season they were teammates, it was because he was black? Keep in mind that Nico Rosberg beat his previous teammate, Michael Schumacher, more often than not during the three seasons they were teammates.

I can think of only one other F1 driver that had three different F1 champions as teammates (Prost: Lauda, Senna and Mansell).
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#24

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Ruslan wrote: 2 years ago

I can think of only one other F1 driver that had three different F1 champions as teammates (Prost: Lauda, Senna and Mansell).
Does that make Prost the only non coloured.....

.... ill get my coat. :whistling:

More to the point the best (multiple WDC) drivers per era always rise to the best cars of their time. Not rocket science really.... The best teams want (can afford to pay for) the best drivers.

Lewis / Merc, (Vettel / Red Bull,?) Schu/Ferrari, Senna a Prost / McLaren, Stewart / Tyrrell, etc

By the same token sometimes the best car can make a good driver seem great. :wink:

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#25

Post by erwin greven »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 2 years ago By the same token sometimes the best car can make a good driver seem great. :wink:
Was Hector Rebaque better than Prost and Reutemann.



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#26

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

point taken.

The best car doesnt always make a driver look great. :wink:

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#27

Post by White six »

Ruslan wrote: 2 years ago
Andy wrote: 2 years ago He's never been top of any game but his advantage has been, dare I say, being the first black doing so.
Really?

1. So in Hamilton's 2007 rookie year when he tied his teammate two-time world champion Fernando Alonso in 2007, it was because he was black? At that time, many people considered Alonso the best driver in F1, maybe even better than Michael Schumacher.
2. So when he beat world champion Jenson Button more often than not during the three seasons they were teammates, it was because he was black?
3. So when he beat future world champion Nico Rosberg more often than not during the four season they were teammates, it was because he was black? Keep in mind that Nico Rosberg beat his previous teammate, Michael Schumacher, more often than not during the three seasons they were teammates.

I can think of only one other F1 driver that had three different F1 champions as teammates (Prost: Lauda, Senna and Mansell).
Piquet: Lauda, Mansell, Schumacher
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#28

Post by erwin greven »

Damon Hill: Prost 93, Senna, Mansell 94. Villeneuve became after Damon left Williams
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#29

Post by XcraigX »

Ruslan wrote: 2 years ago I can think of only one other F1 driver that had three different F1 champions as teammates (Prost: Lauda, Senna and Mansell).
I think you meant beat three different champions as teammates? Because there were several drivers that just had different champs as teammates (and were beaten by them). Even then, the analogy falls flat because Lewis only tied Alonso in '07.

Which gives me an entirely different idea for a thread. How many drivers have beat a WDC team-mate over at least 1 season but never went on to win the WDC?
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#30

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

XcraigX wrote: 2 years ago
Which gives me an entirely different idea for a thread. How many drivers have beat a WDC team-mate over at least 1 season but never went on to win the WDC?
Nick Heidfeld beat JV in 2006 at BMW.... so much so that BMW gave JV the flick in favour of Kubica.
DC beat Kimi in 2002 at McLaren. He also beat Hakkinen in 2001
Irvine beat Schumacher in 1999 (Schu missed a few races through injury but the records show Irvine scored more oints in that year. :wink:
Regga beat Lauda at Ferrari in 1974.
Tambay equalled Hunt at McLaren in 1978

Those just off the to of my head.... there will be many more I am sure.

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#31

Post by Ruslan »

XcraigX wrote: 2 years ago
Ruslan wrote: 2 years ago I can think of only one other F1 driver that had three different F1 champions as teammates (Prost: Lauda, Senna and Mansell).
I think you meant beat three different champions as teammates? Because there were several drivers that just had different champs as teammates (and were beaten by them). Even then, the analogy falls flat because Lewis only tied Alonso in '07.

Which gives me an entirely different idea for a thread. How many drivers have beat a WDC team-mate over at least 1 season but never went on to win the WDC?
"Beat or tied" I guess.

But actually I didn't recall as I was writing that both Piquet and D. Hill had three world champions as teammates. Piquet did not tie or beat Lauda in 1979 (they were teammates for 14 races) and Piquet and Schumacher were only teammates for five races. D. Hill certainly did not tie or beat Prost or Senna and was only paired with Mansell for four races. He did beat Villeneuve in Villeneuve's rookie year in F1.

It still looks like Hamilton and Prost sort of have unique records.
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