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#241

Post by MonteCristo »

Bottom post of the previous page:

The Ghost Who Walks wrote: 2 years ago
MonteCristo wrote: 2 years ago
The Ghost Who Walks wrote: 2 years ago
MonteCristo wrote: 2 years ago Can we please get some w00p w00ps for DAAANNN after a dominating performance? After starting four positions behind Norris, he finishes three positions and 22 seconds ahead.

:blush:
Even after the team sabotaged him with a dodgy stop
Sooooo... Drive of the season? :mrgreen:
Hard to say if it was better than Monza, but they are the clear top 2 I'd say.
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#242

Post by Circuitmaster »

Ruslan wrote: 2 years ago
2. US and Mexico favor Mercedes.
Does Mexico favour Mercedes? Benson was saying that they don't stand a chance there.

'Not only that, but of the remaining seven races, they expect to have pretty much no chance of beating Red Bull at one - Mexico - and the others are too close to call.'
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#243

Post by DoubleFart »

Mexico has favoured Red Bull for years as it's at altitude, and the weaker Honda engine wasn't so exposed. I'd expect Hamilton to take a penalty there.
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#244

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

One for @DoubleFart

Stroll reaches eight penalty points after Gasly clash

Lance Stroll has collected two penalty points on his licence for a collision with Pierre Gasly during the Russian Grand Prix.

Stroll was also given a 10-second time penalty for the collision,..... which does not change his finishing position of 11th. (Gasly came 13th.)
The stewards deemed Stroll was “wholly to blame” for the collision with Gasly which occured at turn eight while rain was falling late in the race. Stroll had already gone off the track and hit Gasly after rejoining the circuit.
“Although noting the evidence of the driver of car 18 [Stroll] that the conditions were extremely slippery especially as he was on old hard tyres, the stewards determined that it was still the responsibility of the driver to ensure that having left the track due to those very same conditions, he drove appropriately taking them into account when he rejoined and turned into the next corner, considering there were two other cars in close proximity,” the stewards ruled.

Stroll’s penalty leaves him four points away from an automatic ban. He will next lose penalty points from his licences on October 25th, the day after the United States Grand Prix, when two points are deducted.

He has collected three of his penalty points this year. These are two for colliding with Charles Leclerc at the Hungarian Grand Prix and one for passing Gasly off-track at the Emilia Romagna Grand Prix. He also also been given a formal warning and a non-driving reprimand for other incidents.
https://www.racefans.net/2021/09/26/str ... sly-clash/

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#245

Post by P. Cornelius Scipio »

it was am eventful race, let's hope that by moving into autumn we will get more wet races

Norris - IMHO the moral winner, he drove a superb race, IMHO he truly deserved to win. I know that he made a mistake when he didn't stop for intermediaries but at that moment he had everything to lose and not much information, I think that by soldiering on he showed that he's a real racer and that he goes after victories. I was truly impressed by him yesterday, IMHO he will be the one to bring the strongest challenge to Verstappen in the next few years

Alonso - a stunning drive for him, with that car he managed to climb up to 3rd, pity (as per Norris, and the same applies to Perez and Leclerc) he ended up in a position where he had to concentrate on the dice for 3rd rather than look at the whole picture, but still it was a mighty race by him

Hamilton - ok he won, fine, but in his first stint he looked rather weak and he only improved his pace with the hard compound (which famously suits his car to perfection). I think that he has had much more convincing days than yesterday

Verstappen - at the beginning and towards the end of the race he was very impressive, pity he didn't really shine during the middle part of the race, still finishing 2nd after starting dead last is a great achievement

Sainz - I like Sainz and I'm glad that he ended up on the podium but I wasn't impressed by his race, he had a poor start that put him in the position of taking Norris' slipstream, managed to soldier on for 12 or so laps and then faded into obscurity. His attacks on Bottas and Gasly were a bit embarrassing. I think that he could have achieved more, in the end IMHO he was very lucky that the pit wall timed his last pit stop to perfection

Ricciardo - ok but not as good as his team mate, he doesn't look super comfortable with his car

Bottas - the guy famous for his lacklustre racecraft managed to hold off Sainz on a new set of tyres for many laps and after a steady yet unremarkable performance ended up in the points. Another driver who IMHO was lucky

Raikkonen - when he cares he can still shine, pity he does not seem to care very often
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#246

Post by Star »

Just seen the race. I felt for Lando Norris, he so deserved the win but you have to say he threw it away when he refused to come in for the stop once the rain started to get heavier. He handed it to Hamilton I'm afraid and I hope he learns from his mistake. Saying that, he drove so well before that. His day will come I am sure, but it wasn't to be yesterday.

Great drive by Max to get 2nd, when it came to passing Bottas could he have jumped much further out of the way? Alonso had a good drive after that cheeky move at the start and Stroll and Vettel, then Stroll and Gasly, oh dear. Serves him right for getting a penalty.

Hamilton took the win and I suppose he deserved it, but it wasn't exactly that he won it so much as Norris threw it away. Nice to see Sainz get a podium after what seemed like a bad call by Ferrari when they pitted him early on.
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#247

Post by Ruslan »

Circuitmaster wrote: 2 years ago
Ruslan wrote: 2 years ago
2. US and Mexico favor Mercedes.
Does Mexico favour Mercedes? Benson was saying that they don't stand a chance there.

'Not only that, but of the remaining seven races, they expect to have pretty much no chance of beating Red Bull at one - Mexico - and the others are too close to call.'
Well Horner seems to think so. To summarize his evaluation: https://www.grandprix.com/news/remainin ... orner.html

Turkey: Favors Mercedes?
Austin: Equal
Mexico: Favor Red Bull
Brazil: Favor Red Bull
TBA: ? (I gather it is now Qatar)
Saudi Arabia: ?
Abu Dhabi: ?

Now, Horner has his biases, but I find his analysis is usually pretty honest when adjusted for bias. I gather he is saying that Red Bull will only have the advantage at Mexico (which I am not sure of) and Brazil. Mercedes has the advantage at Turkey and Austin, and possibly at three other tracks.

Of course, the other question is where will it rain? I gather almost no chance at Qatar, Saudi and Abu Dhabi, and a low chance at Turkey, Austin and Mexico. Only Brazil may be influenced by rain. We could have seven dry races in a row.
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#248

Post by Ruslan »

P. Cornelius Scipio wrote: 2 years ago Norris - ...I know that he made a mistake when he didn't stop for intermediaries but at that moment he had everything to lose and not much information, I think that by soldiering on he showed that he's a real racer and that he goes after victories....

Alonso - a stunning drive for him...

Hamilton - ....but in his first stint he looked rather weak...I think that he has had much more convincing days than yesterday

Verstappen - ...at the beginning and towards the end of the race he was very impressive, pity he didn't really shine during the middle part of the race ...

Sainz - ...I wasn't impressed by his race...

Ricciardo - ok but not as good as his team mate, he doesn't look super comfortable with his car

Bottas - the guy famous for his lacklustre racecraft....

Raikkonen - when he cares he can still shine, pity he does not seem to care very often
Yes....agree entirely.
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#249

Post by Ruslan »

Star wrote: 2 years ago Just seen the race. I felt for Lando Norris, he so deserved the win but you have to say he threw it away when he refused to come in for the stop once the rain started to get heavier. He handed it to Hamilton I'm afraid and I hope he learns from his mistake. Saying that, he drove so well before that. His day will come I am sure, but it wasn't to be yesterday.

Great drive by Max to get 2nd, when it came to passing Bottas could he have jumped much further out of the way? Alonso had a good drive after that cheeky move at the start and Stroll and Vettel, then Stroll and Gasly, oh dear. Serves him right for getting a penalty.

Hamilton took the win and I suppose he deserved it, but it wasn't exactly that he won it so much as Norris threw it away. Nice to see Sainz get a podium after what seemed like a bad call by Ferrari when they pitted him early on.
I don't really blame Norris much for staying out. That was kind of judgment call based upon an unknown variable (how badly would it rain at the end). Mercedes had every reason to call Hamilton in when they did, as they were not closing on Norris and has plenty of room to his rear for the pit stop. Pitting for McLaren was more of a danger, as he only had a two-second margin to Hamilton.

Lando will get his wins at another time. Looking forward to 2022. Not sure if he is the next great thing (another Lewis or Max) but he continues to impress. I also like him as a person (which is not something I can say about a number of the great drivers).
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#250

Post by DoubleFart »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 2 years ago One for @DoubleFart

Stroll reaches eight penalty points after Gasly clash

Lance Stroll has collected two penalty points on his licence for a collision with Pierre Gasly during the Russian Grand Prix.

Stroll was also given a 10-second time penalty for the collision,..... which does not change his finishing position of 11th. (Gasly came 13th.)
The stewards deemed Stroll was “wholly to blame” for the collision with Gasly which occured at turn eight while rain was falling late in the race. Stroll had already gone off the track and hit Gasly after rejoining the circuit.
“Although noting the evidence of the driver of car 18 [Stroll] that the conditions were extremely slippery especially as he was on old hard tyres, the stewards determined that it was still the responsibility of the driver to ensure that having left the track due to those very same conditions, he drove appropriately taking them into account when he rejoined and turned into the next corner, considering there were two other cars in close proximity,” the stewards ruled.

Stroll’s penalty leaves him four points away from an automatic ban. He will next lose penalty points from his licences on October 25th, the day after the United States Grand Prix, when two points are deducted.

He has collected three of his penalty points this year. These are two for colliding with Charles Leclerc at the Hungarian Grand Prix and one for passing Gasly off-track at the Emilia Romagna Grand Prix. He also also been given a formal warning and a non-driving reprimand for other incidents.
https://www.racefans.net/2021/09/26/str ... sly-clash/
Can we give him another 2 for pushing Vettel into the wall?
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#251

Post by Star »

Ruslan wrote: 2 years ago
Star wrote: 2 years ago Just seen the race. I felt for Lando Norris, he so deserved the win but you have to say he threw it away when he refused to come in for the stop once the rain started to get heavier. He handed it to Hamilton I'm afraid and I hope he learns from his mistake. Saying that, he drove so well before that. His day will come I am sure, but it wasn't to be yesterday.

Great drive by Max to get 2nd, when it came to passing Bottas could he have jumped much further out of the way? Alonso had a good drive after that cheeky move at the start and Stroll and Vettel, then Stroll and Gasly, oh dear. Serves him right for getting a penalty.

Hamilton took the win and I suppose he deserved it, but it wasn't exactly that he won it so much as Norris threw it away. Nice to see Sainz get a podium after what seemed like a bad call by Ferrari when they pitted him early on.
I don't really blame Norris much for staying out. That was kind of judgment call based upon an unknown variable (how badly would it rain at the end). Mercedes had every reason to call Hamilton in when they did, as they were not closing on Norris and has plenty of room to his rear for the pit stop. Pitting for McLaren was more of a danger, as he only had a two-second margin to Hamilton.

Lando will get his wins at another time. Looking forward to 2022. Not sure if he is the next great thing (another Lewis or Max) but he continues to impress. I also like him as a person (which is not something I can say about a number of the great drivers).
In hindsight Lando made the wrong call, the thing is, his team made the right one and he ignored their advice. I am guessing they won't be thrilled with him about that. They had more data at that point than he did and he probably should have listened to them because of that.

I like Lando as a person too, he seems like a nice and fun guy, I feel the same way about George Russell as well if I'm honest.
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#252

Post by Star »

DoubleFart wrote: 2 years ago
Everso Biggyballies wrote: 2 years ago One for @DoubleFart

Stroll reaches eight penalty points after Gasly clash

Lance Stroll has collected two penalty points on his licence for a collision with Pierre Gasly during the Russian Grand Prix.

Stroll was also given a 10-second time penalty for the collision,..... which does not change his finishing position of 11th. (Gasly came 13th.)
The stewards deemed Stroll was “wholly to blame” for the collision with Gasly which occured at turn eight while rain was falling late in the race. Stroll had already gone off the track and hit Gasly after rejoining the circuit.
“Although noting the evidence of the driver of car 18 [Stroll] that the conditions were extremely slippery especially as he was on old hard tyres, the stewards determined that it was still the responsibility of the driver to ensure that having left the track due to those very same conditions, he drove appropriately taking them into account when he rejoined and turned into the next corner, considering there were two other cars in close proximity,” the stewards ruled.

Stroll’s penalty leaves him four points away from an automatic ban. He will next lose penalty points from his licences on October 25th, the day after the United States Grand Prix, when two points are deducted.

He has collected three of his penalty points this year. These are two for colliding with Charles Leclerc at the Hungarian Grand Prix and one for passing Gasly off-track at the Emilia Romagna Grand Prix. He also also been given a formal warning and a non-driving reprimand for other incidents.
https://www.racefans.net/2021/09/26/str ... sly-clash/
Can we give him another 2 for pushing Vettel into the wall?
I'll second that :thumbsup:
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#253

Post by Ruslan »

Star wrote: 2 years ago I like Lando as a person too, he seems like a nice and fun guy, I feel the same way about George Russell as well if I'm honest.
Yea, I have been a fan of George Russell for a while. Can't wait for him to get to Mercedes. In general, most of the new wave of good drivers are quite likeable (Norris, Russell, LeClerc, Albon, Gasly, Ocon, etc.). Can't say that has always been the case.
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#254

Post by Picci »

24 hours after. Still can’t believe we had 1) a genuinely good race in Russia and b) Lando didn’t win

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#255

Post by erwin greven »

Max said that he was very pleased by the outcome. That when had he started from the front row the outcome probably would have been the same. Lewis 1, he second.
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#256

Post by P. Cornelius Scipio »

Ruslan wrote: 2 years ago
I don't really blame Norris much for staying out. That was kind of judgment call based upon an unknown variable (how badly would it rain at the end). Mercedes had every reason to call Hamilton in when they did, as they were not closing on Norris and has plenty of room to his rear for the pit stop. Pitting for McLaren was more of a danger, as he only had a two-second margin to Hamilton.
I think that this is the real issue here, Hamilton had an advantage of over 40 seconds from the car behind him, pitting was the reasonable choice for him because if the rain got heavier he would gain a significant advantage over Norris. On top of that he was chasing Norris and so he had the advantage of knowing what Norris was going to do (the reasonable thing for Hamilton was doing the opposite of what Norris was doing, unless at Mercedes they knew that the rain was going to get heavier). Norris on the other had was in the dark, if he pitted and Hamilton stayed out, assuming that the rain was not going to get worse, he would lose the race. Norris was in a (potentially) lose/lose situation, the only issue that we can speculate about is how much he knew about what the weather was going to do in the very last laps, did McLaren tell him that it was getting worse or not?
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