2021 Catarrh Grand Prix

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John
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#211

Post by John »

Bottom post of the previous page:

The only thing that can thrown a spanner in the works is how much the Merc engine will drop off now.
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#212

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

John wrote: 2 years ago The only thing that can thrown a spanner in the works is how much the Merc engine will drop off now.
Lewis did not use his 'new' (Brazil) engine this weekend, He used his previous one which was new in Turkey. He has kept the newer one for the final two rounds.... so said Toto.

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#213

Post by White six »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 2 years ago
John wrote: 2 years ago The only thing that can thrown a spanner in the works is how much the Merc engine will drop off now.
Lewis did not use his 'new' (Brazil) engine this weekend, He used his previous one which was new in Turkey. He has kept the newer one for the final two rounds.... so said Toto.
Yep. Hammy will still be ahead in Saudi.

Max needs to win in Abu Dhabs innit

Edit: Horner says their sims favour Merc in Jeddah
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#214

Post by Star »

Just seen the race, here are my thoughts on it in case anyone cares, I don't see why they would.

So after all the penalties for various ignoring of yellow flags and so on, we had the race. Pierre Gasly started second but was never going to stay there. Great start from Max, he did well to get back into second as quickly as he did. He was never going to catch Hamilton though was he?

Why would the teams ignore the advice from Pirelli? I mean Mercedes thought they knew better, shows how wrong they were with Bottas getting a puncture. Then both the Williams and a late one for Norris as well. Alonso did well to finish with his tyres intact after going beyond the prescribed limits with them I'd say.

Good drive by Alonso to get a podium and Seb got a point again after a horrible start.

Well done also to Max for taking the fastest lap point to help narrow the points gap as much as possible.
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#215

Post by White six »

Star wrote: 2 years ago Just seen the race, here are my thoughts on it in case anyone cares, I don't see why they would.

So after all the penalties for various ignoring of yellow flags and so on, we had the race. Pierre Gasly started second but was never going to stay there. Great start from Max, he did well to get back into second as quickly as he did. He was never going to catch Hamilton though was he?

Why would the teams ignore the advice from Pirelli? I mean Mercedes thought they knew better, shows how wrong they were with Bottas getting a puncture. Then both the Williams and a late one for Norris as well. Alonso did well to finish with his tyres intact after going beyond the prescribed limits with them I'd say.

Good drive by Alonso to get a podium and Seb got a point again after a horrible start.

Well done also to Max for taking the fastest lap point to help narrow the points gap as much as possible.
Yes, pointless whining on about pirelli when they ignore clear warnings. 30 on the medium, 40 on the hard. You could also defend pirelli by saying the tyres aren't going in a dangerous manner

Being optimistic Max was closer to Hammy than expected, but suspect Hammy had a cigar on all evening. The argument against that is that Hammy might have stretched the gap to have a go at FL, but I think saving the engine for later a higher priority
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#216

Post by White six »

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hami ... p/6808734/

It's hard not to think that hammy has this in the bag :(
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#217

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Plus I have been seeing comments of Red Bull going to protest the Merc rear wing. Well they were going to protest it this last week as well but didnt.. Jenson Button I think it was had a few thoughts about why they have not yet protested it. Simply because Red Bull dont have a clue what they are protesting, beyond it is quick and so it must be illegal. I believe to lodge a protest it has to be specific in what detail rather than just "the rear wing".

He also said that the Merc speed is not the engine so much..... he said that to get the sort of speed increase they are getting from an engine needs about 50 hp, which is not a feasible number to find mid season on an engine. Well, not legally anyway.(Remembers Ferrari sudden gain in speed maybe 2 years ago, which after a secret chat with the FIA suddenly melted away again) :suspicious:

A bit on the alleged RB wing protest here: Red Bull threaten own protest over Mercedes rear wing as controversy continues



Where it becomes strange is when you look at the FIA speed trap numbers and see that ehe Mercedes car is not the quickest by a long shot. In fact the numbers are quite odd. The Mercs are the slowest Merc powered cars of the lot. :huh: OK we know they had their 'old' engine in for Qatar, rather than the Brazil super engine, but it wasnt that old. And they were blistering over the entire llap

Image


I wonder whether it is the Merc ability to stall their diffuser which is the result of them being able to have downforce to burn without the drag implication on the straight. Gary Anderson wrote about it a couple of weeks ago

GARY ANDERSON EXPLAINS MERCEDES’ SUSPENSION TRICK


@Ruslan is this the latest turn in the low/high rake discussions re pros and cons from early/pre season?
Last edited by Everso Biggyballies 2 years ago, edited 1 time in total.

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#218

Post by White six »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 2 years ago Plus I have been seeing comments of Red Bull going to protest the Merc rear wing. Well they were going to protest it this last week as well but didnt.. Jenson Button I think it was had a few thoughts about why they have not yet protested it. Simply because Red Bull dont have a clue what they are protesting, beyond it is quick and so it must be illegal. I believe to lodge a protest it has to be specific in what detail rather than just "the rear wing".

He also said that the Merc speed is not the engine so much..... he said that to get the sort of speed increase they are getting from an engine needs about 50 hp, which is not a feasible number to find mid season on an engine. Well, not legally anyway.(Remembers Ferrari sudden gain in speed maybe 2 years ago, which after a secret chat with the FIA suddenly melted away again) :suspicious:

A bit on the alleged RB wing protest here: https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... tle-battle



Where it becomes strange is when you look at the FIA speed trap numbers and see that ehe Mercedes car is not the quickest by a long shot. In fact the numbers are quite odd. The Mercs are the slowest Merc powered cars of the lot. :huh:

Image

Any numbers from Brazil? I suspect what is happening is the Merc and Rb are able to use their advantages to run bigger wings. If they are the best at catching and following, straight line doesn't matter as you'll be well placed for drs anyway.

And of course only one zone at losail, so all the more reason to run the big wing
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#219

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

White six wrote: 2 years ago

Any numbers from Brazil? I suspect what is happening is the Merc and Rb are able to use their advantages to run bigger wings. If they are the best at catching and following, straight line doesn't matter as you'll be well placed for drs anyway.

And of course only one zone at losail, so all the more reason to run the big wing
Brazil numbers in the Brazilian thread here..... viewtopic.php?p=416431#p416431

Lewis 20k's faster than Max there, but other Mercs faster still

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#220

Post by White six »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 2 years ago
White six wrote: 2 years ago

Any numbers from Brazil? I suspect what is happening is the Merc and Rb are able to use their advantages to run bigger wings. If they are the best at catching and following, straight line doesn't matter as you'll be well placed for drs anyway.

And of course only one zone at losail, so all the more reason to run the big wing
Brazil numbers in the Brazilian thread here..... viewtopic.php?p=416431#p416431

Lewis 20k's faster than Max there, but other Mercs faster still
Yeah, the ability to follow as you approach the drs more important than adding a few extra k on the trap. Hammy was always in a prime spot
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#221

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

White six wrote: 2 years ago
Everso Biggyballies wrote: 2 years ago
White six wrote: 2 years ago

Any numbers from Brazil? I suspect what is happening is the Merc and Rb are able to use their advantages to run bigger wings. If they are the best at catching and following, straight line doesn't matter as you'll be well placed for drs anyway.

And of course only one zone at losail, so all the more reason to run the big wing
Brazil numbers in the Brazilian thread here..... viewtopic.php?p=416431#p416431

Lewis 20k's faster than Max there, but other Mercs faster still
Yeah, the ability to follow as you approach the drs more important than adding a few extra k on the trap. Hammy was always in a prime spot
Not to mention he had the big grunt engine fresh out of the wraps for that race... the very one that will be back in the car for I think the final two races.

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#222

Post by White six »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 2 years ago
White six wrote: 2 years ago
Everso Biggyballies wrote: 2 years ago
White six wrote: 2 years ago

Any numbers from Brazil? I suspect what is happening is the Merc and Rb are able to use their advantages to run bigger wings. If they are the best at catching and following, straight line doesn't matter as you'll be well placed for drs anyway.

And of course only one zone at losail, so all the more reason to run the big wing
Brazil numbers in the Brazilian thread here..... viewtopic.php?p=416431#p416431

Lewis 20k's faster than Max there, but other Mercs faster still
Yeah, the ability to follow as you approach the drs more important than adding a few extra k on the trap. Hammy was always in a prime spot
Not to mention he had the big grunt engine fresh out of the wraps for that race... the very one that will be back in the car for I think the final two races.
Grunt more important for pushing your way through the following turbulence indeed. I think us max fans are fuckitty fucked tbh, unless there's a downturn in UAE or RB have a cunning plan
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#223

Post by DoubleFart »

Lucky Lewis has got it. If there was any justice, Max would have already wrapped up the title.

Unless Lewis has a puncture that causes his retirement, and a crash that Perez causes, it's not been fair. Or a red flag allows max to fix his car... Twice.
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#224

Post by Ruslan »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 2 years ago @Ruslan is this the latest turn in the low/high rake discussions re pros and cons from early/pre season?
You know, I have been thinking about that the last few days also. What is significant to me is that we did not see Mercedes evolve over time to a higher rake design. They continued to work with what they had and somehow have made it work. So yea, I am not sure now that Red Bull's "high rake" design was quite the world beater that it first appears. There is no question that Red Bull was the better car the first half of the season and now Mercedes is. I really don't know why (nor apparently does Christian Horner).

In the end, the real narrative of this season may not be about the duel between Hamilton and Verstappen, but may be about the advantage Red Bull had in the first half of the season (and their failure to fully gain from it) and the developmental advantage that Mercedes created in the second half of the season. This may be a race between two groups of designers and engineers, with the drivers being only bit players in the story.
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#225

Post by DoubleFart »

No, the key is Lewis was lucky and Max wasn't. It's not about Red Bull failing to take advantage.
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#226

Post by White six »

DoubleFart wrote: 2 years ago No, the key is Lewis was lucky and Max wasn't. It's not about Red Bull failing to take advantage.
There's been plenty unlucky runners up. Most have also won titles and Max would too. Personally I wouldn't sweat about it, Hammy has had a great season if he wins or loses
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