Some probably fatal crashes to identify (VIDEO)

Post here if you come across a video or image that you would like identifying.
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Jesper Hvid
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#31

Post by Jesper Hvid »

Bottom post of the previous page:

OK, no problem.
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#32

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#9 is Jackson Hagemeyer at Terre Haute Aug. 12, 1962. It was fatal.
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#33

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#10 is Wayne Weiler at Terre Haute June 12, 1960. He received a serious head injury when his Cromwell helmet was torn off, but survived at return to local midget racing in his hometown of Phoenix, AZ. A.J. Foyt passing underneath Weiler loaned the Cromwell helmet to Weiler before race. It was a very hot day and Weiler thought it would be cooler if he wore the lighter Cromwell leather helmet instead of his usual Bell 500 model.

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#34

Post by noresore »

#11 is Roger McCluskey at Indianapolis Raceway Park on May 28, 1961 driving the H.O.W. Chevy. He ran in his 1st Indy 500 two days later.


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#35

Post by Jesper Hvid »

Thanks a lot for the IDs. I was about to edit the #11, myself. By some weird coincidence, I found a pic sequence of it, yesterday.

A question for you, if you don't mind:
Jesper Hvid wrote: 2 years ago
Jesper Hvid wrote: 7 years ago Roger McCluskey's 1961 USAC sprintcar flip at IRP, click to enlarge:

Image

I have a video of this.
7-pic sequence, click to enlarge:

Image

http://www.ultimateracinghistory.com/ra ... aceid=5695

He was fastest qualifier, but didn't qualify. There must be a technicality in there that I don't quite understand.
The stats at ultimateracing say he both qualified, and didn't. Is it simply an error, or is it to do with different heats leading to the, what do you call it, main feature race?
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#36

Post by Michael Ferner »

noresore wrote: 2 years ago #11 is Roger McCluskey at Indianapolis Raceway Park on May 28, 1961 driving the H.O.W. Chevy. He ran in his 1st Indy 500 two days later.


Image
Not quite. The car is the HOW/Offy, as can be seen in the pictures; the HOW/Chevy was driven by team mate Elmer George in this race.
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#37

Post by Jesper Hvid »

I'll do a list of these, later today. The two that were added I'm numbering #16 and #17. The offline one, I'll work out what was, and reupload.
Sedre wrote: 4 years ago My friend Isbel Quiroz recently send me these crashes in hope to identify them. I'm sure that some of them were already identified, but I don't remember where.

Probably, some of these accidents are fatal.

#1:


#2 (0:18-0:28) and #3 (0:32-0:36)


#4 (2:30-2:35)


#5 (1:54-1:59)


#6 (0:42-0:57)


#7 (0:30-0:39)


#8


#9


#10


#11


#12


#13


#14


#15


Two more videos I will upload later.
#16 and #17:
Sedre wrote: 4 years ago Thanks for identification, I've already send information to Isbel.

And two more accidents from him to idenfity:

https://mega.nz/#!aDgkGSyQ!PeBCS9Eml7hO ... JuKJDmlQS8

https://mega.nz/#!aChQiI4R!oOsCKcRWi_7R ... ehdDuWOlMo
List of accidents:

Blue text = missing info.

#1: 1952, Silverstone F2: IV Daily Express B.R.D.C. International Trophy, heat 2. Philip Fotheringham-Parker hits spectators: viewtopic.php?f=80&t=13876&p=281030&hil ... er#p281030

#2: Jimmy Gleason at Mineola in 1929: viewtopic.php?f=80&t=10578

#3a+b: Legion Ascot. a) Wheel flies out of the South Turn. b) Roll which was misidentified as Wilbur Shaw. All info except track is unknown.

#4: George Bailey/Jim Johnson, 1934 Indy 500: http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk/cpdb/cras ... itid1=2656

#5: 1933, Art Boyce, Legion Ascot. Another unknown driver nudged him into the barrier.

#6: 1930, British Pathé-video showing crash ejecting unknown driver in USA 50-mile stock (here: standard) car race at Chicago, exact track unknown.

#7: Vern Orenduff's accident at the Nutley Velodome in 1938: viewtopic.php?f=80&t=15498

#8: Very violent flip of unknown sprint car driver, at unknown track, in unknown race, in the USA, in the 1960s.

#9: Jackson Hagemeyer's fatal USAC sprint car qualy crash in 1962 at Terre Haute: http://www.motorsportmemorial.org/focus ... =ct&n=3487

#10: Wayne Weiler's serious USAC sprint car heat accident at Terre Haute in 1961: http://www.ultimateracinghistory.com/ra ... aceid=5750

#11: Roger McCluskey's USAC sprint car heat race crash at Indianapolis Raceway Park on May 28, 1961: http://www.ultimateracinghistory.com/ra ... aceid=5695

#12: Violent flip of unknown sprint car driver, at unknown track, in unknown race, in the USA, in the 1960s.

#13: Jim McElreath's midget crash at Terre Haute in the 1962 USAC Hut Hundred: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=14561&p=364322&hil ... ed#p364322

#14: OFFLINE! I don't remember what it was. Can you reupload?

#15: Unknown driver of probably big car (= sprint car), in dirt track flip, in the USA, at unknown track, maybe at a state fair, and in unknown year, maybe sometime in the 1930s.

#16: Unknown USA midget crash.

#17: #47 USA midget crash.

End of list.

---

I'm sorting all my Legion Ascot-material, and the idea was to get the unID'd ones over in another Graveyard-file (for videos), and that's what I'm going to do, now. This is a step along the way.
Last edited by Jesper Hvid 2 years ago, edited 3 times in total.
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#38

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noresore wrote: 2 years ago#10 is Wayne Weiler at Terre Haute June 12, 1960.
11 June 1961. That was the only correction. Thanks for all the info. List done.

---

The offline #14 I have in my archive already, but I don't remember what it was, exactly. Main thing is, it wasn't lost.
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#39

Post by Jesper Hvid »

#3a, flying wheel, is not this, the background is different, and the wheel in #3a came off closer to turn one. It is Legion Ascot:
---

#21: 1935 Stan Hallett, South Turn.

Image

---
---

#3: 1935 February 18: http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675 ... f-the-race



0:30-0:38 Car loses wheel and crashes into barrier on South Turn.

---
#3b, backwards-spinning #20, rolling once, may be Oakland, where they had the same electrical masts outside the track. I must admit I'm not quite sure that it is actually Legion Ascot.

I can't do anything about the rest of the unidentified ones.
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#40

Post by Michael Ferner »

It is the same crash, Stan Hallet (or Hallett) at Ascot Feb 17, 1935.

Image

The video is excellent, all from the same meeting. Start and finish are from the main event, won by Harris Insinger (#12) after a great fight with Al Gordon (#3), who led 47 of the 50 laps, and Rex Mays (#1) - Insinger's first win on the circuit. The lost wheel is from the second heat (although, the meeting was advertized as a "triple feature event" to confound Jesper - it started with the two-lap "helmet dash", then came two 25-lap "features" and a 15-lap consy, finishing with the 50-lap "feature"), passing cars are #6 Frank Wearne and #5 George Connor, who won. The segment with the spinning #33 (Lou Webb) is from the consy, passing are #16 Tex Petersen, the winner, ,#43 Ralph Gregg and #22 Johnny McDowell. Also from the consy is the other crash, with #26 Bob Gragg spinning and #34 Ray Durling going over the fence. Durling was not seriously injured, left the hospital the next day but never raced again.
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#41

Post by Jesper Hvid »

Thanks for the info on Bob Gragg and the race during which it happened. I recently found a pic of the Durling-crash, solving the main ID: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=17252 . You may not have seen the other angle of this crash. but I have that, and will post it soon.

Do you have an opinion on
#3 (0:32-0:36)
, from above list? Backwards spin into barrier, if LAS then South Turn, possibly #28 or #20, does one full sideways roll.

It has been "identified" long ago as Wilbur Shaw, but it definitely isn't his big LAS-accident (he crashed parallel to barrier). It's not Rex Mays', either (he was ejected - I found the video). Art Boyce's accident in 1933 happens right after it, in the compilation, but it is not necessarily footage from same year/event.
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#42

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Extension of topic:
"Worst Sprint Car Crashes", [YT]-compilation by Gavin Morse, length: 7:49.



You need to log in to [YT] in order to watch this. I can put the file online here, if you like. It's been around for 10 years, without any serious effort to solve the contents.

Number of different accidents: 42. Some are not even sprint car crashes. I'm continuing the existing numbering of this topic.

I’ve highlighted 8 items below, that I’d personally like to have ID’d.

The compilation uses old fameflame-videos, and Dick Wallen-footage, and states that some clips are fatal, but I am not so sure about that, as I can’t find a single one in there. I recognize many of the things I see, and here’s what I know:

List of accidents:

0:00-0:08 nothing.

#18: 0:09-0:32 1971 Larry Cannon, 1971 USAC sprint car race, 17 October, at Winchester Speedway. It was a double-feature, apparently, and I don’t know which one of them this was.
#19: 0:33-0:40 1965 Norm Hall, champcar Hoosier Grand Prix at IRP: http://www.champcarstats.com/races/196508.htm
#20: 0:41-0:53 unknown.
#21: 0:54-1:01 unknown.
#22: 1:02-1:07 unknown. I think this was one of the Bettenhausens. Will check.
#23: 1:08-1:15 unknown SCRA Thunderbowl Speedway.
#24: 1:16-1:35 unknown.
#25: 1:36-2:00 unknown.
#26: 2:01-2:29 1981 Gary Gray, qualy (not heat) for the USAC Silver Crown Don Branson/Jud Larson Memorial, at Eldora. Not a sprint car, but a dirt track champcar race: http://www.ultimateracinghistory.com/ra ... ceid=10208 DNQers are normally only mentioned, when they are knocked out of the heats before the feature.
#27a: 2:30-2:46 unknown, but an [YT]-comment suggests that it was Jac Heudenschild, and that a young spectator was killed in the accident. I cannot confirm any of that. Must be looked into.
#27b: 2:47-2:55 same as, different angle. Looks like he was deliberately knocked out by another car.
#28: 2:56-3:00 unknown.
#29: 3:01-3:13 unknown.
#30: 3:14-3:29 unknown.
#31: 3:30-3:34 unknown. I seem to remember this was Australian. I.e. speedcar, and not sprint car.
#32: 3:35-3:50 unknown #18. Possibly Robert Smith. I would like to have that ID’d.
#33: 3:51-3:56 unknown #92. Terre Haute? I would like to have that ID’d.
#34: 3:57-4:02 unknown #28 and #20. I would like to have that ID’d.
#35 4:03-4:11 unknown #90 and #97.
#36: 4:12-4:18 unknown wild flip. I would like to have that ID’d.
#37: 4:19-4:27 unknown wild roll. I would like to have that ID’d.
#38: 4:28-4:40 unknown #8.
#49: 4:41-4:47 2002 Adam Mitchell, SCRA heat race, Perris Auto Speedway.
#40: 4:48-4:53 1964 Roger McCluskey’s USAC sprint car crash in time trials, at the Reading Fairgrounds: http://www.ultimateracinghistory.com/ra ... aceid=6608
#41: 4:54-5:01 1978 Mike Sargent, NARC sprint car race, Calistoga.
#42: 5:02-5:13 1977 Pat Hughes, NARC sprint car race, Calistoga.
#43: 5:14-5:17 unknown nasty roll out of track. Maybe Terre Haute? I would like to have that ID’d.
#44: 5:18-5:45 1975 George Snider, USAC sprint car race, Winchester Speedway, IN.
#45: 5:46-5:48 same as #8.
#46: 5:49-5:53 unknown #42 rolls in infield fence.
#47: 5:54-6:02 1960 Eddie Sachs hits Lloyd Ruby in practice for the champcar Golden State 100 at Sacramento: http://www.champcarstats.com/races/196011.htm
#48: 6:03-6:06 unknown roll over hay bales. I would like to have that ID’d.
#49a: 6:07-6:12 #35 sprint car wrecks in fence, first half. I would like to have that ID’d.
#50: 6:13-6:16 unknown.
#49b: 6:17-6:22 #35 sprint car wrecks in fence, second half.
#51: 6:23-6:26 unknown.
#52: 6:27-6:33 Same as #10.
#53 6:34-6:36 Same as #11.
#54: 6:37-6:41 Same as #12.
#55: 6:42-6:44 Same as #13, and not a sprint car.
#56: 6:45-6:53 unknown.
#57: 6:54-7:14 unknown.
#58: 7:15-7:24 1961 Bobby Marshman, in the 1st of two champcar Trenton 100s of that year: http://www.champcarstats.com/races/196101.htm
#49c: 7:25-7:28 same as 6:07-6:12, but in colour.
#59: 7:29-7:41 1962 Elmer George and spectators, in the champcar Bobby Ball Memorial at the ASF in Phoenix: http://www.champcarstats.com/races/196213.htm

7:42-7:49 nothing.

End of list.
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#43

Post by PizzaPizzaYumYum »

Jesper Hvid wrote: 2 years ago Extension of topic:
"Worst Sprint Car Crashes", [YT]-compilation by Gavin Morse, length: 7:49.



You need to log in to [YT] in order to watch this. I can put the file online here, if you like. It's been around for 10 years, without any serious effort to solve the contents.

Number of different accidents: 42. Some are not even sprint car crashes. I'm continuing the existing numbering of this topic.

I’ve highlighted 8 items below, that I’d personally like to have ID’d.

The compilation uses old fameflame-videos, and Dick Wallen-footage, and states that some clips are fatal, but I am not so sure about that, as I can’t find a single one in there. I recognize many of the things I see, and here’s what I know:

List of accidents:

0:00-0:08 nothing.

#18: 0:09-0:32 1971 Larry Cannon, 1971 USAC sprint car race, 17 October, at Winchester Speedway. It was a double-feature, apparently, and I don’t know which one of them this was.
#19: 0:33-0:40 1965 Norm Hall, champcar Hoosier Grand Prix at IRP: http://www.champcarstats.com/races/196508.htm
#20: 0:41-0:53 unknown.
#21: 0:54-1:01 unknown.
#22: 1:02-1:07 unknown. I think this was one of the Bettenhausens. Will check.
#23: 1:08-1:15 unknown SCRA Thunderbowl Speedway.
#24: 1:16-1:35 unknown.
#25: 1:36-2:00 unknown.
#26: 2:01-2:29 1981 Gary Gray, qualy (not heat) for the USAC Silver Crown Don Branson/Jud Larson Memorial, at Eldora. Not a sprint car, but a dirt track champcar race: http://www.ultimateracinghistory.com/ra ... ceid=10208 DNQers are normally only mentioned, when they are knocked out of the heats before the feature.
#27a: 2:30-2:46 unknown, but an [YT]-comment suggests that it was Jac Heudenschild, and that a young spectator was killed in the accident. I cannot confirm any of that. Must be looked into.
#27b: 2:47-2:55 same as, different angle. Looks like he was deliberately knocked out by another car.
#28: 2:56-3:00 unknown.
#29: 3:01-3:13 unknown.
#30: 3:14-3:29 unknown.
#31: 3:30-3:34 unknown. I seem to remember this was Australian. I.e. speedcar, and not sprint car.
#32: 3:35-3:50 unknown #18. Possibly Robert Smith. I would like to have that ID’d.
#33: 3:51-3:56 unknown #92. Terre Haute? I would like to have that ID’d.
#34: 3:57-4:02 unknown #28 and #20. I would like to have that ID’d.
#35 4:03-4:11 unknown #90 and #97.
#36: 4:12-4:18 unknown wild flip. I would like to have that ID’d.
#37: 4:19-4:27 unknown wild roll. I would like to have that ID’d.
#38: 4:28-4:40 unknown #8.
#49: 4:41-4:47 2002 Adam Mitchell, SCRA heat race, Perris Auto Speedway.
#40: 4:48-4:53 1964 Roger McCluskey’s USAC sprint car crash in time trials, at the Reading Fairgrounds: http://www.ultimateracinghistory.com/ra ... aceid=6608
#41: 4:54-5:01 1978 Mike Sargent, NARC sprint car race, Calistoga.
#42: 5:02-5:13 1977 Pat Hughes, NARC sprint car race, Calistoga.
#43: 5:14-5:17 unknown nasty roll out of track. Maybe Terre Haute? I would like to have that ID’d.
#44: 5:18-5:45 1975 George Snider, USAC sprint car race, Winchester Speedway, IN.
#45: 5:46-5:48 same as #8.
#46: 5:49-5:53 unknown #42 rolls in infield fence.
#47: 5:54-6:02 1960 Eddie Sachs hits Lloyd Ruby in practice for the champcar Golden State 100 at Sacramento: http://www.champcarstats.com/races/196011.htm
#48: 6:03-6:06 unknown roll over hay bales. I would like to have that ID’d.
#49a: 6:07-6:12 #35 sprint car wrecks in fence, first half. I would like to have that ID’d.
#50: 6:13-6:16 unknown.
#49b: 6:17-6:22 #35 sprint car wrecks in fence, second half.
#51: 6:23-6:26 unknown.
#52: 6:27-6:33 Same as #10.
#53 6:34-6:36 Same as #11.
#54: 6:37-6:41 Same as #12.
#55: 6:42-6:44 Same as #13, and not a sprint car.
#56: 6:45-6:53 unknown.
#57: 6:54-7:14 unknown.
#58: 7:15-7:24 1961 Bobby Marshman, in the 1st of two champcar Trenton 100s of that year: http://www.champcarstats.com/races/196101.htm
#49c: 7:25-7:28 same as 6:07-6:12, but in colour.
#59: 7:29-7:41 1962 Elmer George and spectators, in the champcar Bobby Ball Memorial at the ASF in Phoenix: http://www.champcarstats.com/races/196213.htm

7:42-7:49 nothing.

End of list.
There's actually archived footage of the 27a crash from tbk.fameflame.dk. The commentator states only one person was hurt (I believe it wasn't serious injuries because of the calm way he says it), and the racer would continue his career shortly after.

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#44

Post by Jesper Hvid »

Thanks for that. I can hear a few things like: "that's Scooter Lambert making the contact". The name of the driver of the car that flipped is possibly mentioned at 0:14, but I can't hear exactly what the commentator is saying. Hans (something)? Anyways, it's definitely non-fatal. Comments on [YT] about race crashes are almost 100% useless.
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#45

Post by hollie3sa »

Jesper Hvid wrote: 2 years ago Thanks for that. I can hear a few things like: "that's Scooter Lambert making the contact". The name of the driver of the car that flipped is possibly mentioned at 0:14, but I can't hear exactly what the commentator is saying. Hans (something)? Anyways, it's definitely non-fatal. Comments on [YT] about race crashes are almost 100% useless.
Which track is it? Do we know that?
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#46

Post by Jesper Hvid »

Well, I don't, that's for sure. I think the clip is 20-25 years old, at least. One of the things that made IDing problematic at the old fameflame was the fact that they often muted the clips. Add to that low-quality grabs using the old capture cards. I have to say it's not too much of a problem to me, if no post-1980s items are solved, but would of course prefer to see it all ID'd. I won't be able to, I'm completely in the dark about it. And so are the commentators on [YT], or else they're trolling.
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