F1 2024 STUFF NOT WORTHY OF ITS OWN THREAD

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Aty
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#76

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Bottom post of the previous page:

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 1 month ago
Aty wrote: 1 month ago
Formula 1 CEO Stefano Domenicali has teased that certain European races will be rotated on the calendar from 2026 onwards.

Spa Francorchamps, Monaco, Imola and Zandvoort all have contracts with F1 that expire at the end of the 2025 season.
Teased? Really? Dome never teases. He is merely letting us down gently about what was already probably decided.

It seem that continental Europe is not important to Liberty media. In my mind for them to show up here ever second year as fly-by-night circus is best way how the F1 becomes progressively irrelevant to about 700+ mill people of Europe.

So, what's alernative?

Perhaps correlating pricing schedule proportionally to cost of living is another way how to co-exist and tolerate each other.
There will be a dozen Middle Eastern GPs, and 10 in the US..... The other Euro traditional venues like Silverstone Monza Spa and others like Australia and Suzuka will get to run a GP every 6th year. By then the spectator or fan will be a thing of the past.... all the Grandstands and General Admission areas will be dedicated to VIP areas and Corporate zones.
This kind of architecture presents challenge to the race track owners. They need cash to maintain racing facilities, and probably pay interest on money initially invested. They will need to sell seats year by year. Potential low return on the subsidary events may drive some into a debt. It will be complicated with earmarks of pretty hefty mess.
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#77

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Marko: Red Bull may not win every single race in 2024: https://www.grandprix.com/news/red-bull ... marko.html

That makes me feel so much better.
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#78

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Steiner making some perfectly reasonable comments: https://www.grandprix.com/news/haas-nee ... einer.html

I always felt the Haas approach was conceptually flawed... and their decline to the slowest team on the grid sort of establishes that. They may get a few more points this year, but in the end, their approach will invariably guarantee they are always one of the slower teams on the grid, year-after-year.
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#79

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Massa is sueing then.

Be fun to see if they can find people to back up Bernie's claim
The board equivalent of the Jody scheckter chicane. Fast but pointless
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#80

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White six wrote: 1 month ago Massa is sueing then.

Be fun to see if they can find people to back up Bernie's claim
Don't know how that works out. I mean the reason he didn't get any points that day was that Ferrari muffed the pit stop.

Also he wants the entire race results nullified (vice Alonso's finish disallowed), which would include erasing Hamilton's third place finish that day.

Not sure who he is supposed to get money from? The pit crewman who left the hose attached to his car?
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#81

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

White six wrote: 1 month ago Massa is sueing then.

Be fun to see if they can find people to back up Bernie's claim
Yeah its official. Its seems the words of a bloke in his mid nineties, well known for pot stirring has triggered the latest claims and actions.

Massa is going for money rather than the title it seems. Anyway he has issued proceedings against the FIA and FOM plus Bernie ,
Statement from Massa’s lawyers
On March 11, 2024, Felipe Massa filed a lawsuit in the High Court in London, England against Formula One Management Limited (FOM), Bernard Charles Ecclestone, and the Federation Internationale de L’Automobile (FIA).

Mr Massa is seeking declarations that the FIA breached its regulations by failing to promptly investigate Nelson Piquet Junior’s crash at the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix, and that had it acted properly, Mr Massa would have won the drivers’ championship that year. Mr Massa also seeks damages for the significant financial loss he has suffered due to the FIA’s failure, in which Mr Ecclestone and FOM were also complicit.

As Mr Ecclestone has admitted, there was “enough information in time to investigate the matter” in 2008 and “cancel the race in Singapore”. Mr Ecclestone further affirmed that, had the results of the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix been cancelled, “Felipe Massa would have become world champion” and that Mr. Massa “was cheated out of the title he deserved.

Attempts to find an amicable resolution have been unsuccessful, leaving Mr Massa with no choice but to initiate legal proceedings.

Recent events naturally demonstrate that issues of transparency and integrity in Formula One remain relevant, and it is clear that serious work is needed to restore its credibility and long-term future.

Although the FIA investigation in 2009 concluded that it had “never before considered charges as serious”, even after the revelations brought forward last year, the results of the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix still stand and remain officially sanctioned by the FIA.

Felipe Massa is represented in England by barristers Nick de Marco KC and Kendrah Potts, instructed by Richard Levett and Daniel Levy (Enyo Law LLP). The full team also includes Bernardo Viana (Vieira Rezende Advogados), Antonio J. Perez-Marques (Davis Polk & Wardwell LLP), Michele Bernasconi (Bär & Karrer), and Olivier Loizon (Gide Loyrette Nouel).
He is seeking confirmation from the FIA that he would have won the 2008 world championship had the governing body investigated the "suspicious crash" in that year’s Singapore Grand Prix more promptly..

You cant nullify a race 15 plus years down the track. They certainly cant say the race would have been nullified. The obvious thing would have been to DSQ Renault had it been investigated at the time. Surely thts all the FIA have to say in thi instance Net result of that would be Hamilton won the title by even more points. If they want to make it right they (the FIA) simply have to retrospectively DSQ Renault.

You dont nullify a race because one team cheats. You DSQ the team or in this case the remaining team driver, Alonso., and those behind get elevated positions.

No doubt when this fails Massa will sue Ferrari for screwing up his pitstop that day, to which Ferrari would respond by saying Felipe lost the championship by spinning on his own in Malaysia or even his incompetence at the wet British GP where he spent much of the day spinning off the track etc.

Not only will Felipe lose the case but he will lose the credibility he had, the manner in which he accepted defeat in Brazil. He will still be the "What if" WDC

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#82

Post by DoubleFart »

I'll happily see the 2008 Singapore GP results made null and void. I'll also happily see Abu Dhabi 2021 made null and void.

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#83

Post by White six »

So the route Bernie found out was surely NPK jr, NPK sr, Bernie, so it'll be interesting to see if any turn up as witnesses

Can't see the latter two leaving the brazilian homesteads
The board equivalent of the Jody scheckter chicane. Fast but pointless
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#84

Post by White six »

Further fun potential shenanigans

Piquet sues Jones for sticking him in the wall in 1980 :)
Williams countersue for Brabham weight tricks 1981
I'd definitely sue ferrari for being 2 seconds quicker at monza and imola than anywhere else

Add your own, you could probably have at least one per season
The board equivalent of the Jody scheckter chicane. Fast but pointless
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#85

Post by MonteCristo »

Piquet sues Salazar, claiming Germany was going to turn it around for him, and lead to him winning the 1982 title, and meanwhile says something racist.
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#86

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Last year when the talk of possible action by Massa was first aired it was all about "the Championship" and Massa coulda shoulda been WDC had the FIA acted properly. It was specified to be nothing to do with money
Bernardo Viana, from the Sao Paulo Vieira Rezende Advogados law firm that represents Massa in Brazil, said last September: “The objective is to bring the trophy home. It's not financial.”
Moving on a few short months and it now seems to be nothing about the world title and instead all about the money
......the court papers make no reference to seeking removal of Hamilton’s maiden F1 title and awarding it to Massa. Instead, the court action is all about the damages that Massa suffered as a result of what he says was the wrong actions of the FIA and F1.

It outlines that Massa not only lost a €2 million (£1.7 million) bonus for not winning the championship, but it cost him in terms of the salary he could command in subsequent years – both in terms of as a driver and in other roles relating to F1 and motorsport – as well as sponsorship and commercial opportunities.

While the court documents say that the exact final sum will be determined by “expert evidence”, it states that its best estimate of pre-interest losses is £64 million.

Beyond seeking financial compensation, Massa wants a declaration from the FIA that it acted in breach of its own regulations in failing to investigate the circumstances of the Singapore crash.
Furthermore, he wants a declaration that if the FIA had not acted in breach of its own rules, then it would have cancelled or adjusted the results of the Singapore race – which would have meant Massa would be champion.

So Massa believes that the FIA are going to admit something that contravenes the very sFIA legal statutes they run by....
because the FIA statutes are pretty definitive in laying down that "once the official trophies have been handed out at the end of season gala, then there are no grounds for overturning"

So we know there is no provision for the race to be nullified under any circumstances. As far as adjusting the race results we have already shown that any rational adjustment to the results (ie DSQ the offending Renault / Alonso entry) would simply have increased Hamilton's point score and not altered Massa's score one iota. He finished 13th thanks to the Ferrari circus clowns in pitlane..... well adrift of the 8th position required at the time to score just one point..

So Massa's lawyer's claim that an adjustment of the results would have resulted in Massa being WDC is factually totally incorrect.

By their own admission with those facts from their legal submission they dont have a leg to stand on. A total waste of Massa's money, legal resources and everyone's time. Plus a total destruction, indeed assassination of Massa's credibility and previous exemplary character and personal humility previously shown in this matter.

I think the knock on the head he received in 2009 left him judgementally damaged.

Final note.... they talk about the improprieties being fully known before the end of term prizegiving. (Note :the end of season gala for that year was held in early December 2008, one month after the final race of the season, and less than 12 weeks after the Singapore GP)

Actually looking at the timline of it all, as per the revelations of Bernie last year (to the Daily Mirror, hardly a source of credibility) Bernie said they knew before the end of the season of the possibility something untoward had happened but they chose to not do anything due to the proximity of the prizegiving on the basis of knowing that after that the Statutes showed it was a fait accompli and not changeable.

It seems his words regarding the rightful champion...... "Due to this, it is his (BE's) belief that Felipe Massa should have been the F1 Driver's World Champion in 2008 and not Lewis Hamilton." That is what sparked Massa off on this journey he is now on.

@P. Cornelius Scipio this about Todt might interest you from a legal credibility standpoint.
Those words were factually incorrect as we have shown other tht to have completely nullified the race. The only person to have ever said the race should have been nullified was Jean Todt, long after he had retired from hiis position of FIA President.

That Todt claim in itself suffers it's own lack of credibility. Other than not being said whilst he was in office, let us not forget Jean Todt's son Nicholas was Felipe Massa's Personal Manager throughout his career. This Todt association was seen as influential throughout Massa's career.... especially when he joined Sauber, who utuilised th Petronas (ie Ferrari) engine.

My point is Jean Todt's dealings and belief in Massa was shown to have been influenced by his son managing Felipe.

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#87

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I think that it's a mess
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#88

Post by Aty »

Kai Ebel:
It's becoming like a popcorn cinema.
A few notes regarding recent changes to classical tradition on GP racing event. I am with Kai on his observation, but I also think Liberty is on the roll, and they don't give a second thought what purists think.

https://www.grandprix.com/news/f1-exper ... tions.html
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#89

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Bahrain's Mumtalakat seeks exit: McLaren up for sale after mounting losses
Somebody call Andretti and/or Horner - here is your chance...
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#90

Post by DoubleFart »

Aty wrote: 1 month ago
Bahrain's Mumtalakat seeks exit: McLaren up for sale after mounting losses
Somebody call Andretti and/or Horner - here is your chance...
Lando and Oscar are on the phone to Mercedes and Red Bull to find out if they'll buy out contracts.
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#91

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Aty wrote: 1 month ago
Bahrain's Mumtalakat seeks exit: McLaren up for sale after mounting losses
Somebody call Andretti and/or Horner - here is your chance...
McLaren F1 is not for sale or even rumoured to be.. All that is being rumoured is that McLaren will sell off their loss making car division. There are rumours that someone such as Elon Musk is looking at expanding his emopire and in particularly the brand name is more evocative than Tesla.

The whole idea is to be able to focus more on their ever increasing participation in other non F1 Racing categories such as Indycar, Formula E Sports Cars etc etc and to make the business solely Auto Racing.

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